Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Sweat]

33 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

I give my condolences to those who died in this horrific massacre, but...

 

Okay, are we really going to pull the cis white male argument?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

2180 people in 32 different countries were killed by Islamic extremists. In the past thirty days. And notice how I'm intentionally leaving out the murders that took place a few days ago. Granted, most of these occurred in African or Middle Eastern countries, but that hardly changes anything. Now you name me acts of Christian terrorism that have happened in this time frame, because I highly doubt it'll exceed 226 (if it does I'll eat my hat).

Oh, and for all of you bitching about the Atlantis Slave Trade, keep in mind that the Arab Slave Trade lasted for five times longer, and enslaved both Europeans and Africans alike. Despite its legal status, it is still practiced in parts of the Islamic world.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm

http://www.albawaba.com/news/middle-east-slavery-528324

Also keep in mind that the EEVIL cis white males were the first race to outlaw slavery, and the first to create a secular society legal freedom of religion (something most nations with an Islamic majority have a difficult time implementing, or otherwise retaining).

I'm not saying all Christians are innocent, or that all Muslims are guilty, as that would be an incredibly rash assertion. But blaming the white Christian male for everything is equally silly and unprovoked, especially when you consider that most of media outlet, such as CNN, are owned by Jews (who themselves have a beef with Muslims).

But then again, one of you has a profile picture of Bernie Sanders, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

 

You could've provided better sources besides ones that sound as obviously biases as "thereligionofpeace.com." I mean, honestly.

[Ron]

35 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

I give my condolences to those who died in this horrific massacre, but...

 

Okay, are we really going to pull the cis white male argument?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

2180 people in 32 different countries were killed by Islamic extremists. In the past thirty days. And notice how I'm intentionally leaving out the murders that took place a few days ago. Granted, most of these occurred in African or Middle Eastern countries, but that hardly changes anything. Now you name me acts of Christian terrorism that have happened in this time frame, because I highly doubt it'll exceed 226 (if it does I'll eat my hat).

Oh, and for all of you bitching about the Atlantis Slave Trade, keep in mind that the Arab Slave Trade lasted for five times longer, and enslaved both Europeans and Africans alike. Despite its legal status, it is still practiced in parts of the Islamic world.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm

http://www.albawaba.com/news/middle-east-slavery-528324

Also keep in mind that the EEVIL cis white males were the first race to outlaw slavery, and the first to create a secular society legal freedom of religion (something most nations with an Islamic majority have a difficult time implementing, or otherwise retaining).

I'm not saying all Christians are innocent, or that all Muslims are guilty, as that would be an incredibly rash assertion. But blaming the white Christian male for everything is equally silly and unprovoked, especially when you consider that most of media outlet, such as CNN, are owned by Jews (who themselves have a beef with Muslims).

But then again, one of you has a profile picture of Bernie Sanders, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

 

Who was blaming the white Christian male for everything? If you took time to read my post, you would see that I clearly stated: 

Quote

I think in the post 9/11 decade, there have been Islamist extremism than that of Christianity, but as a whole, Christians (as far as I can tell) have been just as bad as Muslims...Being that Islam and Christianity share the Old Testament and are essentially brother religions, I'd venture to say they're both responsible for a majority of the world's anguish – not one disproportionately more than the other. 

You are getting your information from a website called "The Religion of Peace," which appears to be dedicated entirely to discrediting Islam, so not sure how reliable that is. I believe the most recent act of blatant Christian terrorism in the United States was the Planned Parenthood shooting in late November of last year. One of the most devastating terrorist attacks in American history (I believe it's only second to 9/11) was the Oklahoma City bombing. Done by, guess who? A Christianist. 

I don't believe any "race" is evil, so, sure, we can praise the whites if you'd like for outlawing slavery. That's irrelevant to me because I don't hold humanity's achievements captive by color. My argument with the slaveholders was that they justified their continued use of slavery in the United States long after Great Britain had outlawed it with (largely) economic and moral arguments. Beyond the fact that it was an integral financial structure in the South, it was also an indelible part of their culture and a lot of the support for the continuation of slavery stemmed from the Bible (Leviticus 25:44, Colossians 4:1, Deuteronomy 23:15, Titus 2:9 for a few examples). 

White males were not the first race to outlaw slavery; the Qin Dynasty in China did that in 221 B.C. 

While white males were the first to enshrine a constitutional right to the freedom of religion, India has been a very tolerant country for much of its history. 

They aren't successful in maintaining religious freedom because their governments are either inherently based on Sharia Law and an Islamist foundation or they have a state religion. And has the United States truly been a role model in this area either? Since it was founded, the vast majority of people have been Protestant Christians. As minority religions have grown, we haven't exactly done a great job in incorporating Islam and Judaism and Buddhism into mainstream culture. The same could be said about Middle Eastern countries; their majority religion is Islam and fringe religions are not as prevalent. Additionally, perhaps the reason they have had so much trouble is because the United States and friends have fucked things up so badly in that region of the world. 

Right, let's blame the Jews for everything. 

A lot of conservatives think they're being courageous and bold when they ditch what's "P.C." when really they're just being assholes. 

[70s]

40 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

Also keep in mind that the EEVIL cis white males were the first race to outlaw slavery, and the first to create a secular society legal freedom of religion (something most nations with an Islamic majority have a difficult time implementing, or otherwise retaining).

Okay, nowhere did anyone say that cis white males (a group I belong to, btw) are evil. The only thing I meant by my post is that were this shooter a white male, the story would be entirely different. Donald Trump and the GOP wouldn't give a single fuck, first of all. For example, last summer when a white male targeted an all-black church in Charleston, how many times did you hear the word "terrorism" used in reference to it? Because that's what it was, but unless the perpetrator is Muslim (or let's be real, brown and vaguely Muslim-looking) no one would dare utter that word.

40 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

I'm not saying all Christians are innocent, or that all Muslims are guilty, as that would be an incredibly rash assertion. But blaming the white Christian male for everything is equally silly and unprovoked, especially when you consider that most of media outlet, such as CNN, are owned by Jews (who themselves have a beef with Muslims).

Again, who the fuck said this?

40 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

But then again, one of you has a profile picture of Bernie Sanders, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

How is this even relevant? But for the record, I support Crooked Hillary.

[Jane]

I think this thread has gotten a little heated and it may come off to other people like everyone is jumping down each other's throats.

It's sad that this will only worsen bigotry against muslims, when the majority of them are peaceful. Remember that only the minority are the extremists who seem loud due to the attention given by the media.

[Space Cowboy]

51 minutes ago, PatBack™ said:

I give my condolences to those who died in this horrific massacre, but...

 

Okay, are we really going to pull the cis white male argument?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

2180 people in 32 different countries were killed by Islamic extremists. In the past thirty days. And notice how I'm intentionally leaving out the murders that took place a few days ago. Granted, most of these occurred in African or Middle Eastern countries, but that hardly changes anything. Now you name me acts of Christian terrorism that have happened in this time frame, because I highly doubt it'll exceed 226 (if it does I'll eat my hat).

Oh, and for all of you bitching about the Atlantis Slave Trade, keep in mind that the Arab Slave Trade lasted for five times longer, and enslaved both Europeans and Africans alike. Despite its legal status, it is still practiced in parts of the Islamic world.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm

http://www.albawaba.com/news/middle-east-slavery-528324

Also keep in mind that the EEVIL cis white males were the first race to outlaw slavery, and the first to create a secular society legal freedom of religion (something most nations with an Islamic majority have a difficult time implementing, or otherwise retaining).

I'm not saying all Christians are innocent, or that all Muslims are guilty, as that would be an incredibly rash assertion. But blaming the white Christian male for everything is equally silly and unprovoked, especially when you consider that most of media outlet, such as CNN, are owned by Jews (who themselves have a beef with Muslims).

But then again, one of you has a profile picture of Bernie Sanders, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

 

Ok, i think there's starting to be a big misunderstanding here. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you're saying that Christians are just as bad as Muslims in their acts of terrorism. I'm pretty sure that hilaryfan80 said the same thing in his comment, correct me if i'm wrong again, but you interpreted it as saying that Christians have committed more acts of terrorism throughout history, while he was actually trying to say that the west is unfairly putting Islam in a worse light.

 

 

[Sweat]

One thing that's worth noting about Christianity and Islam sharing the same Old Testament is that Christianity does stuff like the New Testament to help reform itself so it's not a religion that's stuck in one spot (even though I'm sure the New Testament had a whole lot of awful crap in it, too.) Meanwhile, I don't think that Islam has had any kind of upgrade or change, so it's tougher for it to reform and progress as a religion.

I'm not trying to prove a point or anything with what I said above, it's just meant to be food for thought.

[crushingmayhem]

Woah 3 pages, that's pretty rare for a topic like this. But yeah, don't make the conversation too heated or else it will go off-topic and i'll have to close it.

Anyway, I heard on the news today that some Puerto Ricans were among the dead, its sad to see fellow compatriots die like this. Hopefully feelings of islamophobia won't spread over here because of this. Then again, this whole islam vs the west conflict is unheard of in my part of the world so we don't have to worry about terrorist attacks. I feel sorry for those who have to suffer this everyday, in times like these we should be united in order to prevent more attacks like this. It won't be easy to battle ISIS but if the world powers unite instead of trying to fight for influence and for their self-interests then we'll be able to beat them. Radical Islam won't die overnight though since the state of constant wars in their countries is what's causing radicalization in the first place. I'm against the use of guns anywhere, perhaps they should be regulated even further. Then again, outlawing them isn't gonna solve all problems since its the carrier itself who causes the problems, not the vendor.

[70s]

Anyway, as for the shooting itself... Rest in peace to all the innocent people because of some ignorant asshole. I wish this could help inspire some change so your deaths aren't entirely in vain, but it won't. All day today and yesterday I've alternated between anger, sadness, and actual fear. I'm tired of the pattern of people pretending to give a shit and then moving on and nothing changing, but it's clear that if Sandy Hook didn't change anything, we're fucked.

These people say it better than I can:

 

 

[Loopers]

Man, this is horrible.

All my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. D:

[SpongeOddFan]

RIP to those people who lost their lives

[Guest hilaryfan80]

I literally do not understand your post, @PatBack™.

2 hours ago, PatBack™ said:

2180 people in 32 different countries were killed by Islamic extremists.

There's a lot more to this than you have been fed by the news outlets. There's currently a war going on between Muslim groups (it's similar to what Christians would call "denominations": the Sunni and the Shia), so yeah there's going to be a lot of deaths. I suggest that you take a look at this video to find what is going on.

 

3 hours ago, PatBack™ said:

Now you name me acts of Christian terrorism that have happened in this time frame, because I highly doubt it'll exceed 226 (if it does I'll eat my hat).

In November 1868, the Ku Klux Klan killed over 2,000 African Americans in 1 country (Louisiana) as an attempt to suppress black voting. How about that?

2 hours ago, PatBack™ said:

Also keep in mind that the EEVIL cis white males were the first race to outlaw slavery

Nope. A quick search on Wikipedia dispels your statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

2 hours ago, PatBack™ said:

and the first to create a secular society legal freedom of religion

Again, nope, that was the First Persian Empire, which is Asian and not White.

2 hours ago, PatBack™ said:

But blaming the white Christian male for everything is equally silly and unprovoked, especially when you consider that most of media outlet, such as CNN, are owned by Jews (who themselves have a beef with Muslims).

Nobody has blamed Christians for anything. You immediately took offense over facts, similar to the "Not All Men" argument, and made a post that basically said, "Well, I'm Christian and I'm not a terrorist, so I'm offended!" The truth is Christians have a bloody history. Did I ever once say that they are bloody now? Never. So I'm not exactly sure why you attacked Dylan and I for only stating facts, which, honestly, is incredibly rude since all we were doing is contributing to the thread. The only point I made is that terrorism has always been around and that we should be fighting against terrorism, not against religions and race.

[Sweat]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Dr. Professor Patrick said:

In November 1868, the Ku Klux Klan killed over 2,000 African Americans in 1 country (Louisiana) as an attempt to suppress black voting. How about that?

I think he wants an event from current times, but yea

 

I don't know about PatBack or anyone else, but personally, when I say to fight Islamic terrorism, I never mean to fight a religion by any means. Saying that Islamic radicals need to be stopped doesn't necessarily mean that they're the only radicals that we should care about.

[Bob Carotte]

This is horrible. My condolences go to the victims and their families.

[kev]

Damn anyone who thinks their life is worth more than others. As a person who frequents Orlando, i cant begin to express how angry and sickened i am. My heart goes out to all th victims + families.

[Sweat]

Well, it turns out that this act of terrorism may be more bizarre and complex than people thought at first.

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/omar-mateen-may-not-have-understood-the-difference-between-isis-al-qaeda-and-hezbollah/

So he apparently could've already been gay himself, he had connections to three terrorist groups who all hate each other, and then there's everything his ex-wife said...

 

I mean, God damn.

[Space Cowboy]

3 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Well, it turns out that this act of terrorism may be more bizarre and complex than people thought at first.

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/omar-mateen-may-not-have-understood-the-difference-between-isis-al-qaeda-and-hezbollah/

So he apparently could've already been gay himself, he had connections to three terrorist groups who all hate each other, and then there's everything his ex-wife said...

 

I mean, God damn.

Yeah I was just about to say he's declared allegiance to ISIS, Hezbollah, and AL-Nusra, which yeah, all hate each other 

[70s]

 

 

[Sweat]

9 minutes ago, 70s said:

 

 

That's a good video, but we just cannot pretend that there aren't a whole lot of criminals out there that are 100% willing to break gun policy just to kill people. Once again, not saying we shouldn't have gun control (we should), but we need more measures than just that to stop this plague of terrorism. Gun control can help, but it won't solve it completely.

(Also, I get that it was a bit of a humor-based video, but all of the Ad Hominem crap in it really doesn't make me think Samantha Bee is an all-too-credible person to listen to.)

[Katniss]

Here is a list of the victims of the shooting. I encourage y'all to look at their names and read their stories. 

[WhoBibbles]

13 hours ago, Katniss said:

Here is a list of the victims of the shooting. I encourage y'all to look at their names and read their stories. 

From what I've read so far, I can't believe their promising future were ruined. They could have been so much more, they really lived shortly and it breaks my heart that these people are very good and innocent and they did nothing to deserve this at all. It worries me that it will happen again and again  and again. These past years this world has been dealing with terrorism and I'm losing hope that it will stop one day and people will learn to accept love can happen in any form and there's nothing with with two people loving each other. Nowhere is safe and I can't live with fear all the time. How can I gain hope again? How can we learn to love each other? How can people who did this be so heartless, hateful and cruel?