Trump moves to end DACA: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals

[Clappy]

Outside of the current hurricane season, this has been the biggest story of the week and I have a lot to say about how much I disagree with Trump's decision to rescind DACA.

I personally know a few of the 800,000 affected by this decision and I can't even begin to imagine how they are feeling about this heinous decision.  It is cruel to offer young people the chance come out of the shadows and trust the US government to contribute to the American dream, only to get shitted on and punished for it.  I feel like the only reason Trump is doing this is because he has an agenda to destroy everything Obama accomplished during his presidency because he has proven that time and time again during his administration.

Lets have a respectful discussion about this topic.  I don't want this to become the Charlottesville thread all over again, but I feel this is something that could affect some of us here that we can hopefully have  a civil discussion about.  Please let me be right about this.

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

I am neutral on the whole illegal immigration debate. Both sides have a point. Yes, these people have come here for a better life and to achieve he American dream. But, at the same time, they've broken the law in how they've chosen to come here. As for the whole "immigrants are stealing our jobs" thing...yeeeeah...well, I'd hate to burst their bubbles, but it isn't the immigrants' faults that they've "stolen" your jobs. If anything, the higher-ups are to blame. To them this is how it works: immigrant wants to work + they want to work for lower pay = cheap and easy labor. People are just going to blame Trump for this because he's the easiest and most obvious target, but the truth is it won't be that simple or easy to fix. Immigration is more than just "let them stay" or "kick them all out". It's a far more complex issue that'll take a lot of time to sort out. And that's all I have to say.

[SpongeOddFan]

I think it's kind of stupid decison for Trump to end DACA.

[JCM]

3 hours ago, Renegade the Unicorn said:

I am neutral on the whole illegal immigration debate. Both sides have a point. Yes, these people have come here for a better life and to achieve he American dream. But, at the same time, they've broken the law in how they've chosen to come here.

Dreamers didn't choose to come here, though. They were brought here as children, and America is the only country many of them know. Repealing DACA treats these people who are for all intents and purposes American like criminals, and while they are criminals in some people's minds, I don't think it's fair to punish people for situations they have no control over.

[Clappy]

Not only that, but repealing DACA could possibly lead up to 800,000 deportations from the country nearly all of them grew up in.  They don't know any other home country and are living the American dream where they have good paying jobs, starting families, and some are even serving in the military for the US.  I wouldn't want them to lose everything they earned over a situation they didn't choose to be in.  That wouldn't resolve anything other than causing a bunch of people to start their lives over again from square one for no reason.

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

1 hour ago, JCM said:

Dreamers didn't choose to come here, though. They were brought here as children, and America is the only country many of them know. Repealing DACA treats these people who are for all intents and purposes American like criminals, and while they are criminals in some people's minds, I don't think it's fair to punish people for situations they have no control over.

I see your point. Still, from a technical standpoint, they've broken the law. And there's nothing that can be done, honestly.

[Wumbo]

Sometimes provisions are made because laws should not apply, for reasons exactly like these. There is no reason to deport these Americans who have only known this country and want to do good other than the law, and, well, if I'm being frank, because it's a policy started by Obama and in this administration's eyes, anything Obama did has to go.

Think of it this way: if your restaurant had a "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policy and a mother came in with her six-month-old infant who wasn't wearing shoes, would you kick them out? No, because that would be stupid, pointless, and draconian. If a law causes hundreds of thousands of Americans to have their lives upended, maybe it's a good time to seriously take a look at that law and not go "well it's the government so whaddyagonnado".

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

8 minutes ago, Wumbo said:

Sometimes provisions are made because laws should not apply, for reasons exactly like these. There is no reason to deport these Americans who have only known this country and want to do good other than the law, and, well, if I'm being frank, because it's a policy started by Obama and in this administration's eyes, anything Obama did has to go.

Think of it this way: if your restaurant had a "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policy and a mother came in with her six-month-old infant who wasn't wearing shoes, would you kick them out? No, because that would be stupid, pointless, and draconian. If a law causes hundreds of thousands of Americans to have their lives upended, maybe it's a good time to seriously take a look at that law and not go "well it's the government so whaddyagonnado".

Again, you make a good point. But what, exactly, can we do to fix it?

[Wumbo]

1 hour ago, Renegade the Unicorn said:

Again, you make a good point. But what, exactly, can we do to fix it?

DACA already fixes this? The very provision that is being taken away?

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

3 hours ago, Wumbo said:

DACA already fixes this? The very provision that is being taken away?

No, I'm not saying that.

[kylie]

8 minutes ago, Renegade the Unicorn said:

No, I'm not saying that.

then what are you saying?

saying that there are two sides to everything and that there's nothing we can do to fix the problems of society today says absolutely nothing. you don't have to insert yourself into every thread when you have nothing to say.

[Cha]

I think it's a tragedy they might end this program. Little tiny children whose parents can't afford to live here themselves or are absent from the child's life have just as much as a right to live a happy and prosperous life as we do. 

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

4 minutes ago, Kairi❤ said:

then what are you saying?

Is it sad that they're going to repeal DACA? Yes. And both sides have a point, as I said in my previous post, this isn't about "let them stay" vs. "kick them out". The immigration issue is not as simple as that, and it's never going to be. Blaming Trump won't fix anything either, as that would make things worse; all we can do is try and play a part is fixing the issue as a whole, no matter how futile it might seem right now; this issue's going to take a while to fix.

[Katniss]

I think it's a shame that Trump wants to end this program. It's proven to be so helpful to thousands of Americans. They deserve a chance in this country and it's sad that the administration wants to take it away from them.

[WhoBibbles]

23 minutes ago, Renegade the Unicorn said:

Is it sad that they're going to repeal DACA? Yes. And both sides have a point, as I said in my previous post, this isn't about "let them stay" vs. "kick them out". The immigration issue is not as simple as that, and it's never going to be. Blaming Trump won't fix anything either, as that would make things worse; all we can do is try and play a part is fixing the issue as a whole, no matter how futile it might seem right now; this issue's going to take a while to fix.

I don't always understand USA politics and sometimes I tend to stay away from them but If Trump actually ending the program means bad business, then yes, people have every right to blame Trump on this. It IS his decision to end this and people aren't happy with. Even presidents need criticism and Trump should listen to them, instead of escaping from them.

[Katniss]

I think it's valid to blame Trump because he has spoken out on wanting to end DACA "immediately" . Though since then he's done a bunch of flip-flopping on the issue, as you can see from the article.

[Rebel the Wolfgirl]

20 minutes ago, Dr. WhoBruh said:

I don't always understand USA politics and sometimes I tend to stay away from them but If Trump actually ending the program means bad business, then yes, people have every right to blame Trump on this. It IS his decision to end this and people aren't happy with. Even presidents need criticism and Trump should listen to them, instead of escaping from them.

Again, trying to keep my neutral standpoint here. Trump is not a great president, and yes, this is very likely going to be bad for business; but, again, BOTH SIDES HAVE A POINT.

I see where you're coming from, but Americans need these jobs just as much as the immigrants. Although I don't blame the Dreamers at all (ever heard of guilt by association?), it's just from a technical standpoint that they count as illegal immigrants, and until we can reach a compromise to the bigger problem (such as trying to find a way so that Americans and immigrants can have jobs without the former being displaced, or immigrants having a way to come here legally without facing a bureaucratic nightmare), there won't be a permanent solution. All we can do right now is try to fix it in smaller ways.

[Young Nug]

6 hours ago, Renegade the Unicorn said:

Again, trying to keep my neutral standpoint here. Trump is not a great president, and yes, this is very likely going to be bad for business; but, again, BOTH SIDES HAVE A POINT.

I see where you're coming from, but Americans need these jobs just as much as the immigrants. Although I don't blame the Dreamers at all (ever heard of guilt by association?), it's just from a technical standpoint that they count as illegal immigrants, and until we can reach a compromise to the bigger problem (such as trying to find a way so that Americans and immigrants can have jobs without the former being displaced, or immigrants having a way to come here legally without facing a bureaucratic nightmare), there won't be a permanent solution. All we can do right now is try to fix it in smaller ways.

you have a point in that both sides have a point but that's only in reference to the state of immigration as a whole, not DACA. the system is definitely broken, yes. but ending DACA only makes the situation worse in terms of morals. it's a cruel and heartless way to try and amend a system that arguably just needs to be left the fuck alone until there's a major overhaul to it entirely. Small things like this aren't the way to start - I'd argue the fucking travel ban was a better idea than this was. 

I try to keep an open mind about things, especially nowadays. But these are children who didn't ask to be brought here. How are you going to punish someone for something they didn't even do? Better yet - how are you going to punish someone for simply existing?

your next post will inevitably bring up the technicality that these kids are still illegal immigrants. this is true. this is the law. however. there are things in the law that were, and are wrong. The 13th Amendment allows, by loophole, slavery, which, in turn, is why industrial prison complexes make so much fucking money.  Hell, slavery was borderline encouraged in the Constitution.  There's dumb shit in Georgia law where you can't live on a boat for more than 30 days (look it up). My point with this being, I feel like even when you aren't just spouting things that aren't just flat-out... morally ambiguous (and I'm really not trying to be a dick about this.), that you come from a place trying to defend notions that don't need defending. I don't know if it's because of some self-imposed adherence to rules, how you were raised, or whatever. It doesn't ultimately matter. I guess I just want you to know that you don't have to do that all the time.

its kids that were born into a situation and getting punished with it. Does that seem fair to you in any sense of the word, on what's supposed to be the cornerstone for freedom and fairness in the world? I know it's the law, but sometimes, in my opinion, things go beyond that. There was a meme that went around for a while earlier this year.

I used to hate this, viewing it as another example as to why Liberals lost the election. You cannot win based on an emotional appeal, and when your party's motto is "hey, at least we aren't as bad as the Republicans (which is true)" when most of the country is Republican,  you are absolutely fucked. But in terms of something like this, I feel like it completely applies. Like I said. I know it's the law. But sometimes the law is wrong. Obama saw that and thus, DACA was created, to give those kids a chance to actually fucking get legal. To just throw it away and say "fuck it" is a slap in the face to anyone who believes in the American dream.

you're definitely right about two sides. I don't think in this instance though that it's what you thought it was. here, there's just being a dick and not being a dick. 

so yeah. Fuck this, fuck Trump. As usual.

[President Squidward]

9 hours ago, Katniss said:

I think it's valid to blame Trump because he has spoken out on wanting to end DACA "immediately" . Though since then he's done a bunch of flip-flopping on the issue, as you can see from the article.

He seems to do that with a lot of issues over the years... seems kind of concerning that a flip-flopper like him is our current president.