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Joker (2019)


Jjs Goodman
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Sorry DC fans. I didn't care for the trailer. Joker has been used many times in the era that he lost his charm for me but the fact that they are trying to give him an origin is worrisome. Joker is only interesting when he interacts with other characters in DC, especially Batman. Joker isn't a villain to carry his own story. And I already don't like that they are giving him a makeup instead of chemicals that turned his skin pale and his hair green. I like that there are Joker supporters in the trailer since that seems like it parodies alt-right and white nationalist movements but aside from that, the movie feels like its normalizing Joker, which isn't my cup of tea. Even If my assumptions are wrong, I just don't care. Instead of this movie, we could have just gotten movies of IDK Green Lantern Corps, Booster Gold, Hawkman, Spectre, The Question, a Superman sequel, New Gods, Green Arrow (now that Arrow is ending), Justice Society of America, The Outsiders, Flash (one with isn't Flashpoint/origin), Animal Man etc earlier than whatever this is. I just don't see why we need a Joker movie to be invested in Joker when he was enough covered in Tim Burton and Nolan's Batman movies and this movie doesn't even have a Batman. Maybe I'll see this If I hear good things about it but man, I'm just tired of Joker.

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I don't really think I like this origin story of the Joker. I too prefer the origin of him getting his white skin and green hair from falling into a vat of acid, then him going insane. This one seems to take his "one bad day" almost literally. Plus where's Batman? He supposed to play a pivotal role in who the Joker is. 

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So the script for this has been floating around online for a few months now and one of my buddies on Reddit hooked me up with a copy awhile back.

Potentially spoilers?  Can’t confirm or deny if this is the real script I found, but it sure does sound real.  Read at your own risk.

Spoiler

If the script is any indication, this movie is going to be pretty damn bad.  They basically make Arthur Fleck out to be an incel who is mentally ill because his mother treated him like shit and allowed him to be sexually abused as a child.  And then there’s some added love interest bullshit with his neighbor, who he thinks she cheated on him because she has an actual boyfriend and she lead him on (she didn’t). So basically add “all women are evil” to make this movie come off as slightly sexist. 

But the biggest joke (easy pun) is that there is a brief subplot where Arthur thinks Thomas Wayne is his father.  Even if it was revealed that Arthur’s mom was committed and that the subplot was a lie, that’s absolutely asinine to think such a concept would be real.  Basically, what the movie wants you to think up until that revelation is that The Joker is Bruce Wayne’s half brother.  Ignoring the fact that they are also implying from this movie that Bruce is thirty years younger than The Joker.  Get the fuck out of here with that fan fiction bullshit.

The only redeemable parts of the movie (and by that I mean slightly interesting) is the last twenty or so pages where Arthur finally goes full Joker.  Where he fully commits to the fact that he started a political uprising and that there are people out there who supported his actions of killing the politicians he killed earlier in the movie who were beating him up because of his mental disorder.  Granted, the “we live in a society” bullshit is absolutely been done to death so many times.  And reading this script didn’t make me even remotely sympathetic towards Arthur whatsoever.

Oh and you’ll never guess what happens in the last couple pages.  Bruce Wayne’s parents get murdered by some of The Joker’s fellow supporters.  This is becoming a major nitpick with me, but I do not want to see Bruce’s parents die in any sort of DC movie or television show in a very long time.  I think it’s now been four times that they’ve died on screen in the last fifteen years.  It’s even more overdone than Uncle Ben dying in a Spider-Man movie.  Just stop it!

 

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This has been getting lots of raves but honestly I could not care less about this movie and am already tired of all the ~discourse surrounding it. Maybe I'll see it and it'll prove me wrong but... ugh.

 

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58 minutes ago, 70s said:

This has been getting lots of raves but honestly I could not care less about this movie and am already tired of all the ~discourse surrounding it. Maybe I'll see it and it'll prove me wrong but... ugh.

I am so tired of the discourse already too. And people already saying it’s gonna be up for Oscars...

tenor.gif

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Now that I have seen this movie, even though I have been dreading since the beginning, I have some thoughts.

Spoiler

- I'll just get this out of the way. Surprisingly, the movie didn't go with "incel" route I was expecting judging by leaked scripts. There were still some stuff that his "adoptive" mother didn't do anything to stop Arthur being abused by her boyfriend and Joker did actually kill his mother and Joker living in the fantasy of having a neighbour as a girlfriend was indeed true but the neighbour had no boyfriend, thank goodness for that. Also Joker being Bruce Wayne's half brother was not true, as the movie confirmed that, thank god. Otherwise, I was so ready to shit on this whole movie.

Positives:

- Joaquin Phoenix did a terrific job with portrayal of Joker. I really do not want him to get the oscar for this, this is kind of me being petty towards the creation of the movie than his acting but If he gets nominated, I wouldn't be surprised. He nailed playing a mentally ill person that has been having a really tough time in his life. All the way to his laugh, he gave me chills throughout the movie.

- Despite my overall feelings towards the movİe, I do appreciate taking a different approach with comic book material. After so many action packed flicks, it was nice to see a movie focusing on character study and themes like poverty, mental illness and riots. I'll say not all of this has been handled well but at least the movie kept my interest throughout. I wish this wasn't the movie to jumpstart more artistic takes on comic book genre but at least this felt different than usual superhero/comic book shtick.

- Cinematography, music and overally directings get praise from me. How the movie was made was astonishing.

Negatives:

- Well, all my fears have actually come true. This movie portrayed Joker as an actual symbol/icon to people. I just hated that, all of that. The movie had some attempt to not make Joker's actions feel justified, such as the talk with the comedian host saying "not everyone's awful" and Joker's actions are inexcusable for killing those 3 people on the subway but later on, Joker killed him because he made fun of him and all of a sudden, riots have begun and people in the riots started to idolize Joker as a savior. I mean there were some hints that Joker's action not being justified like police talking about how he's responsible for these riots but the fact that Joker killed those who were actually jerks and treated him like dirt and he ended up being the guy who standed up for poor and broken people in Gotham, It made me feel uncomfortable. The movie has actual references to Fight Club and Taxi Driver, but it didn't try to make the protagonist justified for his actions, those two movies made it clear they were assholes from beginning but Joker only hinted at it and in the end, he became this hero or anti-hero. I get the movie wanted to make him a tragic figure and it did accomplish that but I wish it tried to make him more villainous than anti-hero like hurt actual innocent people who didn't do harm to him. I know this is different than comics but it just appealed to those mass shooters or those who riot and hurt people. 

- I did not like seeing Bruce's parents be murdered yet again. Someone pointed out this was meant to be symbolic or something but I'm over with seeing this origin over and over, It's so hamfisted in the movie that I just found it laughable.

- Joker actually said SOCIETY and it was so bad it was kind of funny. Just a nit-pick but yeah...

I can't say I like this movie because of how it was written as a Joker movie (also my feelings that Joker has been so overexposed in pop culture that I can't stand at his existence at times) but I'll say the movie at least interested me, so it wasn't a really bad experience. I would recommend seeing this If you wanna see something different for a comic book adaptation and there are some stuff that are worth talking in the movie but I'll say that this movie will make you uncomfortable for how it tells Joker's journey here.

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On 10/7/2019 at 1:35 AM, NegiSpongie said:

Is this movie as Oscar worthy as people are claiming it to be? I'm not planning to see it all as much as a Joker fan I am, but this movie doesn't represent him the way I like.

I just wanna know why some people like this movie.

I wouldn't say the movie itself is Oscar worthy, but Joaquin Phoenix's performance as the Joker absolutely is. He's up there with Ledger and Nicholson in his interpretation of the character, and he has to carry this movie way more than those other actors had to carry theirs. If you're expecting a run-of-the-mill superhero movie, you're going to be disappointed, and you'll also be disappointed if you're expecting some groundbreaking artsy masterpiece. As a showcase of Phoenix's talent, however, it couldn't be any better, and that's where most of the praise it's getting is coming from.

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On 9/8/2019 at 2:14 PM, 70s said:

This has been getting lots of raves but honestly I could not care less about this movie and am already tired of all the ~discourse surrounding it. Maybe I'll see it and it'll prove me wrong but... ugh.

Still haven't seen it but WOW I had no idea how right I really was here

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